Interview: 25 years since the Czech-German Declaration.I would not like to open Pandora's cabinet mutual relationships, says Václav Houžvička<

It is obvious that a document signed 21.January 1997 did not arise from day to day.Can you tell the readers what his context was, what was the way to him, and whose initiative was primarily?

1989 launched the final phase of the Cold War between East and West.The phase that led to the fall of communist regimes in Eastern Europe and culminated in the collapse of the Soviet Union.A direct consequence of the demise of the bipolar division of Europe was the new geopolitical situation in Central Europe.The key event to which the development of the program was directed was the unification of Germany.The framework of the Conventions took place between the United States and the Soviet Union, but the Federal Republic of Germany had a significant proportion of pressure towards the fall of the Iron Curtain.

The year 1992 brought negotiations on the division of Czechoslovakia, and at the same time negotiations on a new contract between the Czechoslovakia with Germany on good neighborhood and friendly cooperation, which, however.The representative of these requirements was primarily the Sudeten German compatriot association, which had considerable support in German politics.Among other things, thanks to patronage contracts with all the strongest political parties, but also the media has repeatedly sounded the requirements of property settlement with displaced.

In this situation, the then Bavarian Prime Minister Edmund Stoiber sent a letter that contained eight points with the requirements of the Czech government as it should proceed in this matter.It somewhat resembled a homework whose fulfillment was a prerequisite for our ”entry into the salon”.

The situation was difficult, for the position of a new, reduced state was still formed while the united Germany strengthened.The match of Czech political elites in foreign policy was in two major priorities: to seek membership in the North Atlantic Alliance and the European Union.

In the case of NATO, it was clear that the Americans have the main say, who made it clear in April 1994 by Richard Holbrooka's mouth that the basic prerequisite for our North Atlantic Alliance is to find conformity with Germany on post -war history issues.This was an immediate impulse to initiate negotiations on a fundamental document in the relationship of both states, which later entered bilateral relations as the Czech-German declaration on mutual relations and their future development.A letter of the Bavarian Prime Minister was used as the entry text for the meeting.

Relations between the then relatively young states - united Germany and the independent Czech Republic - were not nearly as clear in the 1990s as they are today.How strong and relevant were the voices that were built to sign the declaration restraint, or sharply, whether on one or the other?

The situation in which the negotiations on the declaration I have partially indicated in the previous answer.The period of the 1990s was inevitably stormy, Czech society and politics had to deal with several parallel ground processes.

The transformation of the political system and political elites framed the consequences of the privatization process and extensive standing in a number of areas whose form often only fog.But the Czech economy also had to catch up with the process of deindustrialization, which passed Western European economies in advance in the 1960s and 1970s 20.century.

In addition, the Czech company surprised the return of the so -called.Sudeten questions she considered long -term closed.The fact that in the dissent environment was held on the website of the Tigrid Revue testimony, the intense debate on the consequences of the expulsion knew Jenmálokdo in the Czech basin.

I am talking about these circumstances in this context deliberately, with the aim of drawing attention to the fact that foreign and internal policy form continuous vessels.While the latter is the essential mover and the initiator of the content of the first.You need internal political support to major steps in foreign policy.Elites and populations.The new state had to formulate a foreign concept of foreign policy in a difficult situation.

In the field of foreign policy, the effect of the divided - and weakened - state, the need for safety anchoring in Western power structures, personnel replacement of a large part of the diplomatic corps etc etc..Among the prominent personalities are at least Jiří Dienstbier, Jaroslav Šedivý, Alexander Vondra or Josef Zielence, which undoubtedly had a significant influence on foreign policy Václav Havel.

Doubts and concerns about the unification of Germany did not only sound in the Czech Republic, here they were more moderate.France and the United Kingdom expressed their concerns by the mouth of its premieres.Margareth Thatcher urged Mikhail Gorbachev not to let a step that could change the power in Europe.Similarly, President François Mitterand proceeded

At the start of the negotiations on the wording of the Declaration, there were optimistic voices that in three months, at the latest in half a year, the text will lie on the table.The text was developed quite soon, from some ninety percent.But the remaining percentage confirmed the saying that the devil is hidden in detail.To mention all peripetia and twists, we have no room for that now.Perhaps only so much that the last week before signing the document almost fell under the table.Words and sentences were played.Only thanks to the deployment of personal emissaries of Helmut Kohl and Václav Klaus managed to prevent the collapse of the negotiations at the very end.

Obviously, the differences of legal opinions of both parties on the fundamental issues of Czech-German relations, and not only property, will require the ability to compromise.The differences expresses already default terminology, the concepts of the expulsion.Terms express the difference in understanding of content and legal interpretation.Indeed.

In the Czech and German media, the emotional discussions of supporters and rejection of the rejection of the proponents and the rejection of.It has been convincingly confirmed that the theme of modern history in Czech-German relations represents a brizant explosive that has the massive potential of ethnic mobilization.As a result, it was clear that the main objective of the declaration is urgently needed for the future relations of both states: to conclude an endless discussion of history, with both parties retaining their legal opinion and no longer burdening future relations.

Despite all the formulation and content comments, this declaration has fulfilled and represents a functional compromise.Necessary to establish the necessary current cooperative relationships, both in bilateral form and in the soil of multinational groups.

The view of the first post -November Czechoslovak concept of foreign policy shows that the unification of Germany was not accepted without fear and the Czernin Palace was rather cautious for historical reasons for historical reasons for historical reasons.Can we say that the Declaration of January 1997 made an imaginary dot behind this approach?

No dot in relationships or among people, let alone among states is possible.The internal continuity of the processes lasts, although formally a new beginning is declared.I say that knowing that the return of democracy after 1989 certainly meant a start to another time.Czech-German relations in 20.century ale nejsou cesta růžovým sadem a nemůžeme se tvářit, že konfliktní minulost zmizela mávnutím proutku.Yes, history is fading and moving away, new generations come.Historians will continue to look for a new interpretation, fashionable new reading of old events.After all, they have a mission.

The continuity of historical conflicts is present in the background or deeper layers, although not currently exposed.Examples are the relations of Germany and Poland, the regularly emerging shadows of the destroyed Warsaw, among others.A similarly deterrent example of the return of history was the restored conflict between Serbs and Croats, which ended with a bloody civil war and the collapse of Yugoslavia.

However, the task of contemporary policy is to interrupt the continuity of evil and create a world for the coming generations in which it will be possible to live without constant remorse and blaming.Hans-Dietrich Genscher said years ago: ”Either we have a common future or we have no at all.”

In this sense, the Declaration can be granted a discharge. Čtvrtcentury existence v tomto světě zběsile pádících proměn považuji za úspěch.After all, we don't have anything better and open Pandora's cabinet again I would not like to.

How to view the Czech-German Declaration with a distance of twenty-five years?Is it a rather symbolic document, or was the factual landmark in the relationships of both countries?

Following the declaration, the Coordinating Council of the Czech-German Discussion Forum was established, in which I was repeatedly invited by Pavel Tigrid.It was he who, on the basis of disputes over the decrees of President Edvard Beneš, initiated an important international scientific project comparing the Denacification legislation of the occupied countries of Europe, which under the name of the German minority in the legal norms of 1938-1948 was published in 2006.

What attributed to this forum is evidenced by the fact that in the first line up, among others, Antje Vollmerová, then vice-chairwoman of the Bundestag or Hans-Dietrich Genscher, long-time Minister of Foreign Affairs Germany.The discussion was represented by political parties, churches of important civic associations, the Union forcedly deployed, the Federation of Jewish Communities, a circle of citizens expelled from the borderland in 1938, the Catholic Ackermann village, or the person of Volkmar Gabert Sudetone Social Democrats.

Kromě již zmíněného „odjištění” historie považuji za zcela zásadní, že Deklarace otevřela cestu k odškodnění desetitisíců obětí nacistické perzekuce, což se týkalo nejen vězňů koncentračních táborů, ale takéosob, respektive občanů někdejšího okupovaného Protektorátu Čechy a Morava, nuceně nasazených na práci na území někdejší Říše v průběhu druhé světové války.For the implementation of this project, both governments founded the Foundation, which funds the Czech-German Future Fund, which supported hundreds of joint projects.Schools, theaters, civic associations cooperate, architectural monuments in the Czech border area with Saxony and Bavaria are renewed, and scholarships are awarded with scholarships.

You asked about the landmark but that is a big word.I would rather say something like a conciliation stone standing in the landscape as a symbol.

How did the perception of the Declaration in Prague and Berlin differ significantly, and there have been any shifts in this direction over the past quarter of a century?

In the immediate period after signing the declaration, the German side showed that it expects some other helpful steps, with their appearance leaves on us.There was an attempt to formulate a gesture from the Czech side, which eventually took the form of a traveling exhibition about German anti -fascists and their role in the autumn of 1938.A more prominent contribution in this respect is finally an open exposition Our Germans at the Museum of the City of Ústí nad Labem.

To the current perception: You do not see diplomats in the head.I do not know the current state, but I believe that both sides are happy for the declaration.Simply because the effects of the declaration work and turn are completely different and more complex tasks to solve.For example, disputes over the interpretation of Green New Deal, a plan for a free Europe with unresolved replacement of classic energy sources and more.Although I am immersed in history, the extent and risks of current economic and social problems of the current European Union seem fascinating and more dangerous than historical dilemmas.

So let's move more to the present.What are the momentary attitudes of the Czech public towards Germany?Is it possible to talk about some dominant view, or are the opinions on our western neighbor rather shatter across social strata?And does these attitudes depend on the problematic past or, on the contrary, current topics?

I have been actively involved in sociological research and attitudes of the Czech population towards Germany, now already in the role of participating observer or reviewer.At the last annual conference of the Czech-German discussion forum in Brno in November last year, STEM presented the current representative research of mutual relations, where 82% of Germans see them as very or rather good and in the reverse guard in Czechs it is 89%.Was an interesting possibility of comparison, because the same research conducted in 2016 showed less optimistic values.The reason is obvious, in 2016 the migration crisis culminated, when most of the Czech society refused to welcome neighboring Germany towards refugees.I can add that in a similar way, the indignant controversy over the upcoming text of the Declaration and then again 2003, when the media traced the interference of post -war presidential decrees in connection with the planned entry of Čechia into the EU.

Dle mých dlouhodobých analýz sociologických šetření je patrné, že aktuální konfliktní situace má schopnost „resuscitovat” historická traumata zanořená v hlubších vrstvách vědomí společnosti a radikalizovat názory a postoje české společnosti. Historik Karel Bartošek nazval tento jev „Češi nemocní dějinami”.A concise, I would say, it was repeatedly in our history… in the Czech-German relations played the role of the media, we find a number of examples of simplified and biased information that help to induce negative public reactions.It is clear that the media largely form public opinion.A few week negative campaign can turn people's views of one hundred and eighty degrees.We would find many examples, and not only in Czech-German relations.

Practically since the end of World War II in Czech public space in various forms and with varying intensity oscillates the question of Sudeten Germans and their possible property and territorial requirements.Do you consider it surprising that the Sudeten German theme is constantly returning, for example in a strongly purposeful form we have seen in the presidential elections in 2013, or last in the dispute over the appointment of Jan Lipavský to the ministerial seat?

I am not going to quote myself, but the question is recording the name of my book Returns Sudeten Question, whose basic thesis is to find out that the question of Czech Germans goes through as a fission line through the whole modern history of the Czech lands.As a result, politicians repeatedly define themselves to this topic in different circumstances and with different motivation.I believe that the most motivated media and civic reaction.Avoid attention is so tempting.

Czech policy has been suffering for a long time with content emptied.The last elections are an illustrative example.Political parties, politicians, but also the media have a share in this situation.In the campaign, as if all of them were bypassing a key, complicated, conflicting topics that catch up on us as a result of the economic break -induced vision and plans of free Europe.In the field of foreign policy, in addition to the recurring constant need for NATO and EU membership, we do not see other goals and concepts.In the escalating situation of the economic and political competition, which is global character, it is essential to define and promote the fan priority of the state interest for individual areas.I intentionally use the concept of state interest - I consider it significantly more concise than national interest - with regard to the experience of the Covidal crisis, when it has been confirmed that acting at the level of the state in the situation of threat is significantly the most effective.

I consider scaring by Sudeten Germans to be a substitute that reliably takes on hand no other topic.Allow the note to do this.Among other things, if I am not mistaken, the idea of the Sudeten German congress in Teplice was first heard from the mouth of the former ambassador František Černý.As far as I remember, he said in exaggeration, saying that when it happens, it will be evidence of complete well-being in the Czech-German relations.

According to many votes, Czech-German relations in recent years are the best in modern history of both countries. Sám jste ale zmínil některé výzvy jednadvacátéhocentury, jakými jsou například masová migrace či přístup ke klimatickým změnám.Are there a new, not irrelevant friction surfaces under the courtesy phrases?

I believe the woman I answered this question for the most part in the previous part of the interview.To the frequently cited conflict of Czech-German relations.Ritualized repetitions may be confirmed in the belief that everything is as it should be, which is useful in foreign relations (as well as in marriage), but it should not cover some of the questionable topics in sight.

In particular, I currently consider the Energy situation in Europe as a crisis moment.Germany ends with nuclear energy, the Czechia is betting on it.Already now there are electricity deficits that Germany covers increased imports from the Czech Republic, where it still lasts a significant proportion of energy from coal thermal power plants.The unstable performance of German wind farms fluctuates the Czech distribution system etc etc.

Public opinion of both countries are different in ecological issues.Germans massively support ecological approach, Czechs are pragmatically lukewarm, but above all have significantly smaller financial resources.Even thirty -two years after systemic change, Czechs are significantly poorer than the Germans.I will leave the detailed analysis of the possible consequences to the appropriate experts.I just indicate where I see some of the serious problems of Czech-German relations.